You're in Australia... SPEAK ENGLISH!!!
March 18th 2008 07:47
Todays group: You're in Australia... SPEAK ENGLISH!!!
4,710 members and counting
Group description:
For those of you who believe that for someone to live in Australia they should at the very least speak English.
Click Here to see the group (if you are a member of facebook of course)
My thoughts: A very worthwhile request. If we go overseas to a non-engligh speaking country we dont just walk around talking only english to get through the day, we make an effort, carrying one of those tine translation books and trying our best. People from other countried who come here should at least do the same. Its called being Australian ! and if they want to live here, thats the least they should have to do. Its good manners. Its like going to someones house and just sitting in the corner with your arms crossed not talking to anyone ! RUDE
4,710 members and counting
Group description:
For those of you who believe that for someone to live in Australia they should at the very least speak English.
Click Here to see the group (if you are a member of facebook of course)
My thoughts: A very worthwhile request. If we go overseas to a non-engligh speaking country we dont just walk around talking only english to get through the day, we make an effort, carrying one of those tine translation books and trying our best. People from other countried who come here should at least do the same. Its called being Australian ! and if they want to live here, thats the least they should have to do. Its good manners. Its like going to someones house and just sitting in the corner with your arms crossed not talking to anyone ! RUDE
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Comment by Jarrah
Back to the Eighties
Im glad you had the guts to say so, its rare to see people say obvious but politically incorrect observations.
People might not like him, but there was a good interview with Gene Simmons not long ago:
He refers to a statement fellow rocker Ted Nugent recently spoke - "If you don't speak English - get the f***k out of America!"
Gene responded.
'Thats a little harsh, but I see where he's coming from. Perhaps - if you don't speak English, then learn to - or get out of America.
I came from ISrael, I had to learn it, most people do. You want all the benefits of our society, the least you could do is learn to communicate with the rest of us."
Couldn't agree more.
- Jarrah
Back to the Eighties
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Comment by Damo
So I don't know where this mob is coming from.
Comment by Jarrah
Back to the Eighties
Comment by Anonymous
As for English speakers making an effort overseas, hardly. Native English speakers have to be amongst the most lazy travellers, simply because we know we will find people who speak English pretty much anywhere in the world.
Maybe you could try a little sensitivity, it's like, you know, the least you can do, and think for a moment how difficult it is to pick up a new language as an adult.
My mother is illiterate in her own language, how the hell do you expect her to learn a new one, let alone one as difficult to grasp as English, when she moved here at the age of 30? With seven children to look after? No family and friends around to help?
This post is a tragic example of sheer ignorance and barely concealed racism. Shame on you.
I am posting this comment as anonymous because you don't deserve my Karma points.
RubySoho
Thought Zone
Comment by Jarrah
Back to the Eighties
Comment by Geordie
I came from Romania here 12 years ago and I learnt to speak English, how the hell else can I live here???
And you know what? The Australian government paid me to goto school to learn it!
I'll be Aussie forever.
P.S.
We're not talking about 'travelers' we're talking about 'stayers'
Your comment is a tragic example of sheer self righteous political correctness.
Comment by Anonymous
I just used my own family as an example.
I am stunned at the ethnocentricity of Caucasian Australians who have made no effort whatsoever to learn about the language and culture of the original inhabitants of the land but so brazenly demand that all more recent additions to the population learn to speak English right away. Today! As in right this second!
And who have the nerve to post a map of the Australian continent wrapped in the Union Jack and Southern Cross. How do you think an Aboriginal person might feel when they see that? Oh that's right, you don't care do you?
By the way Geordie, rehashing my own sentence to make your point doesn't make you clever, it makes you lazy.
And here's a tip people: learn how to use the English language correctly before you start demanding its usage of other people.
It's like, you know, the least you can do.
Ruby
Comment by Jarrah
Back to the Eighties
This is the problem, we can't even talk about this stuff.
No ones talking racism. We're talking about community. English in by far the most common language, so it would be great if you could eventually learn it etc.
And before you start spouting your reverse-racist slurs at me, just remember you don't even know who people are.
my name is ______ ____.
Yeah, that sounds caucasian Aussie.
Agreed, the flag may be a bit much, and just a facebook club is a bit much! Makes it look a little Nazi....
I think its an interesting topic, and you both bring good ideas to the table, although somewhat...'passionate'
LOL
Seriously though.
Lets settle this down at Cronulla
OK, bad joke.
Comment by T.T
MY parents moved here 23 years ago and they never really bothered to learn English.
Now they're kind of weird and paranoid and think people are talking about them all the time. I know others have had the same thing happen.
I dont think they're talking about a time limit or anything, but you should at least make an effort to be part of the larger community.
Comment by Damo
Migrant parent often come under family reunion and so the issue is far more intertwined with social stability that point system migrants. Hard line attitudes do not help the the helpless but make great headlines and talk back fodder.
Refugees are another group where opportunity to learn English is an issue.
Personally I think that the issue of non english speaking migrant has improved over the years because our migrant demographic has moved from working class to professional class.
Comment by Anonymous
My central point in all this is just that we should not make gross generalisations. There may be many different reasons why some migrants have never learned English. I can tell you that my mother's reason was because she is illiterate.
My father was quite educated in his native language and he tried to learn English. He tried hard. I still remember being a child watching him pore over his books trying to do all the exercises. I remember feeling sorry for him because they all seemed so easy to me but he just couldn't get it. The language made no sense to him despite his best efforts.
So my point is you just don't know, so quit painting all people with the same brush.
Also, Damo, agreed that it is desirable to get as many migrants speaking the official language of Australia but it really offends me when native English speakers demand it in such a holier than thou fashion. It is ethnocentric and nationalistic in the most obnoxious manner.
I am particularly intrigued at the language employed in the original post where it is stated that learning English is the "least they can do".
This, of course, begs the question "what is the most they can do?"
Comment by T.T.
I doubt you've ever had an aboriginal friend in your life - but you're so liberated and just.
You tell us how hard it is to learn, then you throw it back in someone face because they don't have good grammar.
You can bitch an moan all you like, the fact is the aboriginal language is currently spoken by less than 1% of the nation. You are the racist, you keep bringing race into it.
As was said before. This is a community issue.
Comment by Ahmed
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We've had similar issues with people from scandanavian and european countries immigrating to Australia and not learning english decades ago. In fact the 'problems' we have today are quite tame compared to back then where their were riots fueld largely due to the language barrier.
Their kids learned english so that was that, a few decades onwards and there are no more problems.
Comment by Jane Green
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I'm agreeing mainly that for the people who come here to live and CHOOSE to speak only their language, without even making an effort to learn even a bit of english is just rude.
Its the effort I'm looking for.
As for three hundred or so Aboriginal dialects, I think as Australians we should know a hell of alot more about the Aboriginal language than we do, it should be taught in school. But thats a whole other subject, perhaps if I find a facebook group on that topic, I'll post it and we can continue that topic on there.
Comment by Kim L
Diving About
I do agree with Ruby about the Aboriginal issue - we love getting uptight about perceived wrongs migrants are committing in the community, but we completely ignore the wrongs we have - and continue to - perpetrate against indigenous Australians.
In the immortal words of 'The Herd'... "Bunch of Redneck F*#ks"
(I know this topic was so yesterday, but I thought I'd chime in)
Kim
Comment by Anonymous
You know what, you have just done such a good job of discrediting yourself, you need no further help from me. Have a nice life.
Jane, the point is you don't know who refuses to entertain the idea of speaking English and who doesn't. You are therefore judging people unfairly.
And Ahmed has a point. The first generation may not speak English but all their children will and their children and so on and so forth, so really what's the problem?
You know Jane, I was angry with your post mainly because you say things such as "for someone to live in Australia they should at the very least speak English"...
What does that mean exactly? When I read between those lines all I see is someone who doesn't want immigrants here, but if they must taint us with their presence well then they can at least speak English.
Please tell me if I am close to the mark. Otherwise correct me and tell what it is you mean by "the very least they could do"?
Comment by The wonderful Peter Yang
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I come from Taiwan, which also happens to be a multiculture country and it do kind of annoy me, when people won't learn to speak Chinese (That is the language we speak over there.)
I mean, I don't think we should force anybody to adopt the culture of the majority, but speaking the official language of the country, well...I think they should learn.
Comment by Cibbuano
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I think it's made us lazy... I studied French at school, but never caught onto it, since English was so pervasive. Later, when I lived in China, most of the foreigners I knew ignored any attempt to speak Chinese, instead letting the Chinese, who all study English in school, eagerly do the work of communication.
As a result, living in a non-English country has made me tolerant of immigrants that have trouble with the language here.
At the same time, though, I'd love to see people learning to speak English if they decide to live in Australia. It certainly enhances the value of the community.
When you meet someone that doesn't speak English at all, I think it's important to ask the question: why? As Damo mentioned, the English requirements are very difficult this year, so all skilled migrants are certainly able to communicate. Who is it that can't speak, then? Refugees? Elderly parents? Certainly, we can have a little sympathy for them?
Comment by Anonymous
Ruby.
Comment by Anonymous
Ruby
Comment by Kanbuna
Its funny how the people who scream 'ignorance' are usually the most ignorant.
If you actually knew aany Koori's, you'd know that
1. They don't want white men to be speaking their language!
2. Most refuse to teach to any out of their family!
All you self absorbed do-gooders go watch your Today tonight and read your Herald Sun - this topic is more fit for realists.
Comment by Anonymous
You have also missed my point. I would explain it again except it will only go over your head-again.
By the way, us "self-absorbed do-gooders" are not the traditional audience for Today Tonight and the Herald Sun.
But that's a good comment actually, in it's own way. We could all use a bit of a laugh to lighten the mood right?
Ruby
Comment by Kanbuna
You just proved my point.
I said K-O-O-R-I-'s
I wont bother explaining to you what that means.
Unbelievable.
Comment by Anonymous
How does this prove your point though? Mistaking one word for another is hardly proof of ignorance.
Besides which, when I was at the VCA, we had Koori Week, where guess what? Some of the elders would teach us a few words in their native language. So please don't generalise.
Besides, which I only brought up the whole issue of Aboriginals to demonstrate the fact that though it is the official language, English is not the first language. The issue is not whether Aboriginals want White people to speak their language, the issue is that white people had no intention of even acknowledging Aboriginals as the rightful owners of this land.
To paraphrase the great Jack White, "White Australians, what? Nothing better to do? Why don't you kick yourself out, your an immigrant too".
Comment by Anonymous
ha ha ha ha ha
GO white girl, save our race!
Comment by Anonymous
And Koori week was put on by the Koori's so please, direct your insults at them, not me if you must.
But now this thread has degenerated into vilifications and diatrabes.
How hard is it have an actual conversation with someone?
Sigh.
Ruby
Comment by Anonymous
You've put down every person on this list.
Comment by Anonymous
I taught ESL (English as second language) to many illiterate immigrants in my country. Literacy is not a requirement to learn a language. My father-in-law learned English by context, watching movies and television. He gets angry when he sees others refusing to make an effort to learn the language who have lived here longer than he has, then crying "racist" when the country doesn't accomodate them by learning their language. I don't blame him.
I loved the way the Chinese handled the situation in Hong Kong in the late 80s, when the island returned to Chinese jurisdiction after years of British rule:
They simply stopped speaking English. They spoke only Mandarin, although all of them knew English.
No nastiness, no arguments, no pugnacious demands, cries of "racist!" or any of that sh*t--if you wanted to take a cab, buy anything, get something to eat, ask directions, or anything else one generally needs to do to get along--you learned the phrase in Mandarin. They weren't picky; an honest effort got you what you needed.
Their message was clear: this is a Chinese country. Make an effort to learn our main language or you won't be able to get along here.
Bravo to them for appealing to practicality rather than stirring up hate. We could all take a lesson from them.
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by AUZZIE
These rule would make it fair and non-racist
Then if they still dont speak english after the second year they get deported and cannot try again for half a year. Some people would call this racist but it is a pretty fair deal.
Comment by nih hao tres bien namaste
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Anonymous
Trying to speak official language is about respect all in all.
Comment by Anonymous
If you decided to move to a place and stay, you should learn to blend into the community which was already there before you came, or at least make some efforts.
Vive la langue maternelle!
Comment by B.B
I don't find English one may have learnt overseas quite suitable for integrating into native Australians community and the less Australians talk to new migrants, the longer it will take for migrants to understand and speak Australian English.
As someone who has recently accepted to become an Australian citizen, I've never experienced being accepted unless I appear far better than acceptable; and I'm afraid to say that I can hardly call this making an effort to accept someone back.
Comment by B.B
I don't find English one may have learnt overseas quite suitable for integrating into native Australians community and the less Australians talk to new migrants, the longer it will take for migrants to understand and speak Australian English.
As someone who has recently accepted to become an Australian citizen, I've never experienced being accepted unless I appear far better than acceptable; and I'm afraid to say that I can hardly call this making an effort to accept someone back.
Comment by Anonymous
Amidst the various wailing and gnashings of teeth, there is a clear message here, which needs to be heard and understood.
The bottom line here is simple; always has been, always will be - If you want to LIVE in Australia, you should learn to speak passable english.
This will go a long way to enabling any migrant to interact with the community as much as they choose to, and will also ensure they are able to navigate their way through all official channels, medical care, etc.
I.e. it will actually make your life easier!!!
For the record, Australia IS NOT a multi-cultural country, we ARE a country of multiple cultures, some of which have blended to a degree, and many of which are continuing to choose to be isolated and exclusive.
And yet, being able to find and access services in a mutlitude of languages, to fulfil the needs of a great number of these sub-cultures, is something of which state and federal departments, and any number of private companies should be very proud.
NO-ONE who comes to Australia has ever been asked to reject or subsume their native culture.
What is being asked (and I stress the word ASKED), is that migrants do try to integrate into the cultural norms which exist, and indeed, bring their cultures to the mix, rather than be isolationist.
In an environment where we have so very few unifying elements, something as simple as language, could be the thing that does actually unite us.
Comment by Anonymous
Thankyou.
Comment by Anonymous
Wow, it is a redneck wonderland!"
I find that that comment is ractist to all enllish speaking Australians wanting citizen's to speak english but being an Australian citizen, i am not allowed to call anything racist towards myself or my country. does anyone think that is fair?
Comment by HV
I just wanna make a few quick points :
1. This site shows up as No. 1 when you google Anti India Websites. Please be aware that though I find the point quite logical it's not coming out right.
2. I think it is a fair to expect people who uproot thoeir lives to come to Australia to show alittel effeort and learn not just English, but also absorb the local way of life. It makes the local culture more vibrant and you more acceptable.
3. The locals can and I am sure they DO show sensitivity towards older people who may not know enough english - but at least make and effort.
4. I also think that it is a little POMPOUS to first migrate out of your country and then have a big chip on your shoulder while in australia -
I am an indian and have never visited australia. I would have the same views for all migrants and how they should behave and how they should be treated.
Comment by Anonymous